Enver – Ireland: In response to Ramesh Prabhu:
“Krsna’s Dog attacks you if you are Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. The mistake was getting initiated by Srila Prabhupada. I don’t know based on what logic 90% prabhupada’s disciples who were victimized by being drievn out of FISKCON are responsible for atrocities of criminal FISKCON gurujis. If someone is neophyte he definitely feels envious for other’s fortune to get initiated by Srila Prabhupada.”
This is rubbish idea Ramesh. Don’t misunderstand, you are not rubbish but the idea is. Nobody is talking about those disciples of Srila Prabhupada who were tormented and forced into exile as we were. I bet that cruel and cowardly “Raja ” Caturbahu das bahkti filled your head with all this nonsense. He is so puffed up that he thinks that he should be envied for it. I was talking about those who are puffed up and condescending and who think that it was due to their good karma that they have gotten initiated by Srila Prabhupada and not due to the causeless mercy only.
I described my target very well and to those who feel wronged by my seeming generalisation I must say that I meant to address those so called disciples of Srila Prabhuada who are still destroying Iskcon or who have participated in that at any time. Please don’t make an issue out of nothing Rajesh.
I don’t envy any of them I just despise those who are arrogantly thinking that they somehow deserved the CAUSE-LESS mercy in the form of being initiated by Srila Prabhupada while he was still on this planet.
Definition of CAUSELESS:
Having no obvious cause; fortuitous or inexplicable groundless or unreasonable
Just see this rubbish condescending theory invented by Rocana dasa and his like-minded friends :
“Ideally, the whole program has been set-up by the mercy of Sri Krsna. Through the vehicle of his pure devotee Spiritual Master Sampradaya Acarya, we have temples, and a program arranged to do what it was doing during his lila period. But if you didn’t have that — if you didn’t have a totally pure, highly qualified diksa guru and you didn’t have all the things that could be there (and would be there in ISKCON today, if the leaders of the institution hadn’t devolved it into a religion) — you can’t demand it. You can’t insist on having something that simply is not available. You can’t demand of Krsna, “I want a diksa guru, and I want him to be an uttama-adhikari. And I want him now.” What gives you the right to do that? What qualifies you to get such a person for a Spiritual Master? What kind of karma do you have that qualifies you in this way? ”
And now for your purification from all this rubbish hodgepodge that you have just read please see this:
“So devotional service is rarely achieved. Rarely achieved means if you achieve, then you become free from all obligation. Na janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ. Tatra laulyam eka-mūlyaṁ na labhyate yad janmabhiḥ sukṛtibhiḥ. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved simply by your INTENSE DESIRE that “This life I shall try to achieve favor of Kṛṣṇa.” Kṛṣṇa will help you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam [Bg. 10.10].
If you are actually seriously engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa gives us intelligence how to approach Him. So pure devotional service is rarely achieved. But BY CHANCE, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151], if we somehow or other come in contact with bona fide guru and Kṛṣṇa… Kṛṣṇa is already there. We are already in touch. And if we are serious, then BY GRACE OF Kṛṣṇa, we get niṣkiñcana, a devotee, and by his grace we achieve to the platform of devotional service. Otherwise it is very difficult. NOT BY EXECUTING KARMA, jñāna, yoga. No. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55].
Simply you have to take pure devotional service. Therefore it is very difficult. People do not wish to come to the pure devotional service. They want hodgepodge: something this, something that, something that. No. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam… [Bg. 18.66].
That is the beginning of pure devotional service. No other engagement. Simply Kṛṣṇa. That is pure devotional service. But that is very difficult to achieve. People will not accept the simple thing. You give them big, big formulas, yoga system, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, they’ll like it: “It is something.” Just like in homeopathic medicine, because it has no taste, there is no trouble to drink, people do not believe in it. But if you give them some very bitter, pungent medicine, “Oh, it is something.”
Similarly, if you give the simple process, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā [Cc. Ādi 17.21], they’ll not take it very seriously. “Oh, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one will be liberated, and he’ll go back…? Oh, this is exaggeration.” They will say. But if you give them some difficult job, that “You press your nose in this way, you make your head downwards, and you exercise in this way, do…,” they’ll think, “Yes, it is something.”
So things are very easy, and one can achieve very easily, but they are reluctant to take the easiest process given by Kṛṣṇa, given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa is giving the easiest process, that “You surrender unto Me. I give you all possible help.” We are not prepared to do that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that “You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You’ll achieve the highest perfection.” Not we are prepared. Therefore it is said, “Pure devotional service is rarely achieved.” People will not accept the simple thing. They want to make something very difficult, then it is all right.”
[The Nectar of Devotion Lecture Vṛndāvana, November 3, 1972] (emphasis mine)
This was the original reply which I have received from Rocana das on 12th of January 2012. To this day he has not responded to our unworthy, karmically poor, unqualified, unchosen selves.
Dear Enver prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thanks for forwarding this. I’ll respond in an article if time permits.
A good friend of mine wrote the following :
>>”…..I just read Rocanas latest article blaming the whole fall down on religiosity and an overemphasis on diksha initiation in ISKCON
>>To me this is a total speculation and shows that when we don´t accept all of Srila Prabhupadas instructions and follow our own mind we start deviating from sastra and real knowledge
>>The problem is not overemphasis on diksa initiation otherwise why did Prabhupoada not just give siksa? Why did he emphasise diksa, first and second for all his disciples giving very specific instructions as to the qualifications of
initiator and initiatee?
The problem lies rather with emphasising diksa initiatiion by unqualified upstarts who should have acted as per july 9th as humble representatives and siksa gurus
The problem lies in not allowing Srila Prabhupada to be diksa guru and usurping his position as world acarya by stealing his disciples
Yet Rocana believes, blinded by caste consciousness and false pride, that it is our bad karma that we juniors are not presented with a qualified diksa guru in ISKCON
Ideally, the whole program has been set-up by the mercy of Sri Krsna. Through the vehicle of his pure devotee Spiritual Master Sampradaya Acarya, we have temples, and a program arranged to do what it was doing during his lila period.
But if you didn’t have that — if you didn’t have a totally pure, highly qualified diksa guru and you didn’t have all the things that could be there (and would be there in ISKCON today, if the leaders of the institution hadn’t devolved it into a religion) — you can’t demand it.
You can’t insist on having something that simply is not available. You can’t demand of Krsna, “I want a diksa guru, and I want him to be an uttama-adhikari. And I want him now.” What gives you the right to do that? What qualifies you to get such a person for a Spiritual Master? What kind of karma do you have that qualifies you in this way?
Please note how he says:¨You can’t insist on having something that simply is not available.¨
In other words to him Srila Prabhupada is simply not available as diksa guru..Bas
He also says: what kind of karma do you have that qualifies you in this way?
But the connection between the guru and disciples is not based on karma but on causeless mercy and bhakti otherwise it is a material mundane process I dont have a sastric quote on this so correct me if i am wrong but it does not make sense to me that we meet our guru because of karma…it´s causeless mercy or Bhaktidevis favor on us
Anyway how can karma qualifie you to meet a guru?
Srila Prabhupada writes in a vyasa puja offering to his guru that according to Madurya kadambini the bhakti lata bija is given to the jiva only through the mercy of the devotees
I heard another devotee (ACBSP)say that you have to be qualified like Prahlad maharaj to get Narada muni as your guru….
This begs the question: what about Mrgari?
Is it really by qualification? who is qualified materially to get a pure devotee as his guru
No one But the caste goswamis and smartas think in terms of their own exaggerated material qualifications, don´t they?
By stubbornly fighting against Srila Prabhupada specific instruction to be the Diksa guru and deliverer acarya in ISKCON through siksa representatives, Rocana is doing the greatest harm to our society and allowing for the perennial tragedies a la Prabhavisnu and co. (and disciples)
Yfs Bh X
Such a fundamental point and yet Rocana dasa had missed it and uses his puny material intellect to manipulate others into thinking that to beg of Krsna(which he terms as posing unreasonable demands upon Krsna) to give us the real perfect uttama -adhikari spiritual master like Srila Prabhupada is somehow illegal and undesirable.What a fraud this guy Rocana dasa is!He somehow or other thinks that we should just settle for the leftovers because of our bad karma and lack of qualification.Such an arrogant fellow.I presume that most of my brethren will not adress this issue because they have some humility and don’t want to clash with each and every one of those arrogant fellows.
Ignorance and pride grow on the same tree. How true. This ignorant fool Rocana dasa thinks that he is qualified enough to teach us all about what the real siddhanta is, what the real guru tattva is and as a natural conclusion to his rubbish philosophy we have to accept him and other impostors as beggars accepting the leftovers from their masters.
He goes on to say:
“Take what Krsna gives you. He’s given you Srila Prabhupada’s books, he’s given you many opportunities to hear from Srila Prabhupada, through his audio recordings, through his books, and of course, through sincere followers of the Sampradaya Acarya who are willing to help you and share with you. But you have to know what the goal is. You have to know what initiation is. And you cannot take the easy way out, the lazy way out, or you’ll never get to the goal.”
“Sincere followers”???? What sincere followers? Liars and manipulators like Rocana dasa??? Why can’t we sincerely beg of Krsna to give us the REAL PURE DEVOTEE SPIRITUAL MASTER? Srila Prabhupada gave us that right, Krsna Himself gave us this right and Rocana dasa tries to take it away. Are you Rocana dasa implying that you are one of those “sincere followers of the Sampradaya Acharya who are willing to help us and share with us”? Share what? Your misconceptions? NO THANK YOU! I want none of your arrogant ignorant and manipulative rubbish! Lead yourself to hell if you wish with all you “good karma”, “qualifications” and lies. I want none of it!
Rocana thinks that he was so darn qualified to have been given Srila Prabhupada as a guru. What qualified him?-his beef eating diet practically since birth. Is it not that by Krsna’s mercy we get a guru and by guru’s mercy we get Krsna? Does it take Prahlada to get Naradha Muni as a guru? How about Mrigari? How was he so qualified? How about the snake who also took initiation from Naradha Muni? How about others?
How about those who Srila Prabhupada initiated and later ended up calling them demons and kali chelas or those who he outright rejected due to their devious nature, disloyalty and extremely offensive nature?
How about those “qualifieds” who raped little children or those who mercilessly murdered our brethren, or those who did both at the same time? How about those ungrateful ones who pretended to be utama adhikaris, kicked out thousands, stole millions and later on went to severely criticize Srila Prabhupada in public?
I feel like puking while visualising all those smug faces of “EXTREMELY QUALIFIED” caricatures whose “MERCY” in shape of fake humility and utter disdain I had to endure all those years.
Even if it is a fact that one gets the Guru like Srila Prabhupada by being extremely qualified individual and by having a good karma, isn’t it more appropriate for a genuine Vaishnava to think otherwise due to his natural humility?
I gave Rocana das fair chance to answer this question. I was told that he will answer IF the time permits. Such important point and he chooses to snub me by not replying to my question. That was several months ago. Sorry Rocana das but this rotten attitude of yours and that of many aspiring siksa and diksha gurus like yourself has to be addressed. I used to have some respect for you but after I read this I wish I hadn’t. Most of you seem to have bought this idea from your Jewish masters who seem to have been reared and conceived with that idea in mind. We are all goyim-beasts of burden, good only for exploiting, milking, riding on, whipping, kicking and devouring at the end.
The reason that the direct cause of this despicable demoralizing and stifling culture perpetrated by ignorant manipulators has to be identified and completely eradicated in our dealings is because this puffed up thinking has caused untold agony and misery to so many of us. This horrible attitude alone on the part of our leaders has contributed to almost total destruction of ISKCON. And as usual, to add further insult to injury, we -the unqualified ones are labelled as envious for objecting to profuse mistreatment and abuse from all those “greatly qualified” cast Goswami-like extremely fortunate but ungratefull mlechas and yavanas dressed up as Vaishnavas. Pfui!
How is it befitting a genuine vaishnava to consider himself superior to others? How does this reckless disposition exhibited on part of our seniors and so-called guides and protectors contribute to us loving and trusting each other? Is it rather not that such a low standard of thinking is main contributing factor to complete erosion of love and trust in our movement, I ask of Your Majestic Your Highnesses the “deserving” ones- directly initiated “chosen” ones?
“Prabhupada: Vaishnava is not so easy. The varnashrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaishnava. It is not so easy to become Vaishnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava, is not so easy. If Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaishnava, that is… fall down. . . . .”
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
“Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced”
” Prabhupāda: Well, hypocrisy and other things, they are subsidiary. If one is pure from the very beginning, then there is no chance of becoming hypocrite. Why he should be hypocrite? If he is open, clear, why one should become hypocrite? Hypocrisy, when there is sinful activity, then hypocrisy. If there is no sin, where is the possibility of hypocrisy? A sinful man may pose himself a religious man. That is hypocrisy. But if there is no sin, then where is hypocrisy?”
July, 1973 : Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests — July 11, 1973, London